Tiburon Screenshot
24 Jul
UPDATED: This is a new shot, different from the one first posted.
Here’s the screenshot we are using for the Tiburon Data Sheet:
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And a good screenshot it is too. Just wondering, and this is probably a stupid question, but will there be an upgrade path from Turbo Delphi Professional?
July 24th, 2008 at 2:27 pmMatthew –
All Turbo Professional users can upgrade to Delphi 2009 and C++Builder 2009
Nick
July 24th, 2008 at 2:33 pmQuestion and first thought: Why is the form border (the one with the Delphi helmet icon saying Ribbon Demo and which should not be visible) still showing outside the ribbon? Can that be switched off? Is it hidden in runtime?
Second thought: The ribbon looks good. Hopefully it is more useful than the glass feature introduced in D2007.
Third thought: Did you fix all the painting bugs that are present in D2007 and make using it virtually impossible?
Fourth thought: Did you guys code the ribbon yourself or license it from TMS or DevExpress.
Fifth thought: If you would have used the good old non embedded D7 IDE, we would be able to see the whole ribbon form. I hate scrolling.
Sixth thought: Although I know that Tiburon is all about Unicode, it is still nice to see Unicode in the screenshot. It probably will be the thing that will make me upgrade (together with generics) from D7 (I did buy D2006, but never used it because it was buggy bloatware).
July 24th, 2008 at 2:55 pmJan –
Thoughts on your thoughts:
1. You are seeing the form in the designer. You can adjust the TRibbon to not show the title bar, though it requires that you implement an interface on your form.
2. I’m sure it is more useful.
3. If you let me know what bugs you are talking about, I’ll look into them. I’m not sure that D2007 is "impossible to use", seeing as thousands of people are using it.
4. This is our own code.
5. Yep, probably true.
6. Glad to hear you will be upgrading, but Tiburon is /not/ all about Unicode. There are lots of features in Delphi 2009. Keep an eye out for even more information about what is new.
July 24th, 2008 at 3:02 pmOh Tiburon looks good
Assuming we have source code for our third party components, what is the likelihood that they will recompile under Tiburon without requiring changes?
I appreciate that is very general question, but presumably you’ve upgraded some of your older projects and have some feel for it.
(I upgraded six major projects directly from D5 to D2006 - a six year version gap - with only minor difficulty, but i’m suspecting D2007 to Tiburon will be much harder).
July 24th, 2008 at 3:09 pmCoding an interface to hide the form border??? I assume you do know that it should not be there in the first place, so why not hide it (and add the interface) in the VCL?
Sorry Nick: My third thought was about the Vista glass feature. I forgot to add the word glass. I did not mean to say that D2007 is useless because it is not. What I meant is:
The glass feature in D2007 is useless because of all the painting issues. Anyone who has dropped some components on the glass area can confirm that. Hopefully you guys fixed them.
"Tiburon is /not/ all about Unicode"
Well it is my #1 feature request with generics being a very distant second. So I don’t mind if is not all about Unicode as long as Unicode is part of the package.
July 24th, 2008 at 3:25 pmnix –
Without /any/ changes? I’d say that was unlikely. Testers are reporting, however, that migrating code is very easy. We’ll be providing docs to make that basic transition easy.
It shouldn’t be "much harder".
Nick
July 24th, 2008 at 3:26 pmI want to buy Tiburon now. (not because of the screenshot)
When will Tiburon be released? It doesn’t have to be exact, I just need a rough idea so I can start budgeting…
July 24th, 2008 at 3:27 pmFX –
In the past, when we’ve started talking publicly about a new product, the release has been close behind.
Nick
July 24th, 2008 at 3:58 pmCan Tiburon (Delphi 2009) have a new icon, instead of the current helmet icon - we’ve had it for the past 3 versions of delphi or so, I think since Delphi 2009 is such a big step up from previous version I think a new Delphi icon is in order?
Otherwise when one looks at the IDE quickly one won’t immediately know it’s Delphi 2009, because it looks alot like Delphi 2007, and Delphi 2006 and maybe even Delphi 2005 (the visual differences in the IDE were very slight between these last 3 versions). So some nice slightly updated visuals in the IDE will make it look brand spanking new… well just an idea.
Stevie
July 24th, 2008 at 4:38 pmHow CodeGear plans the SKU for Tiburon?
July 24th, 2008 at 6:22 pmWill Delphi and C++ combined together in a SKU? Are there SKUs for Delphi and C++ separately?
The sentence which is in Chinese that has been translated from Englishe is WRONG! The correct one is:
Chinese: 欢迎来到 Delphi2009 的 Unicode 世界！
July 24th, 2008 at 7:07 pmEnglishe: Welcome to the world of Unicode with Delphi 2009.
The new version looks really good!
Have you fixed the message bug in the build tab yet ?
For reference see http://qc.codegear.com/wc/qcmain.aspx?d=44678
/Roland
July 24th, 2008 at 8:37 pmWell actually it means "歡迎來到 Delphi 2009 帶來的 Unicode 世界".
July 24th, 2008 at 10:55 pmStevie -
+1
Visually upgraded IDE would be nice with brand new icon. Also Action Menus might need renewal
What about data binding model and data controls? Are there any improvements?
July 24th, 2008 at 10:58 pmWhy the listview (or whatever it is) on the left is not themed/skinned?
July 24th, 2008 at 11:31 pmGreat Ribbon is here
Like Luigi i’m asking me if the new ribbon’s components have ‘interaction’ with all other vcl components plugged in forms…
for example, the statusbar component must be specific when ribbon menu are used in forms.. PopupMenu, PopupActionMenu too etc…
All of this for ergonomic and graphics design homogeneity …
I think choice between design form plugged in ide windows (need scrolling…) or like design form like a real free windows (like in delphi 7) should be very nice…
Thanks Nick for all your D2009 posts, informations are good…
nb: sorry for me poor english…
July 25th, 2008 at 12:55 amI don’t think Ribbon creating a Ribbon is a good idea.
1. You spend resources on something that already exists by 2 vendors
(devexpress and tms) for nearly 2 years
2. You are removing financial resources from the third party developers even though
there are so few left in the VCL market. This is another reason for
the shrinking of this market.
3. It is obvious that you have nothing pioneer and new to show and you only copy
what already has been done. (Ribbon controls, Net and so on).
Congratulations
July 25th, 2008 at 1:21 amI concur with Manolis.
It will be sad to see more component creators moving away to other platforms or closing shop altogether (TurboPower, anyone?).
Unless the component-makers are not doing their job well, it might have been a better idea to get a bulk license from them to include their component as part of new comp. set. Heck, that might even stir the emergence of new component-makers!
Nevertheless, congrats on the new (upcoming) launch!
July 25th, 2008 at 1:46 amI disagree with Manolis,
Delphi needs to be owner of a powerfull GUI. This is very important to attract new users.
Delphi 2009 looks great!!
July 25th, 2008 at 2:00 amYes, **please** get rid of the helmet icon!!!! Or at least, someone please explain to me how on earth a medieval knight’s helmet makes any sense in connection with a 21st-century Rapid Application Development environment, just so that I can sleep peacefully..
July 25th, 2008 at 2:16 amDo we get skinning to go with the ribbon? I think that would be more important than the ribbon itself. As it is, every component-vendor invents its own skinning mechanisms, making it hard to combine GUI-components from different vendors (incl. the standard windows controls). Anyway, I think it’s in there
July 25th, 2008 at 2:42 amManolis Perrakis-
Who needs these baggy and heavy components from DevExpress or TMS?
I don’t like DE’ and don’t need TMS’ so much.
It’s great to see TRibbon comes - after upgrading to D2009 it will be easy (I hope) update an interface of existing applications to introduce a new level of accessibility without additional costs.
As for me TRibbon is the only thing I like in D2009.
And third-party comp. developers HAVE to go far ahead of CG’ comps. Just look at VS - great IDE with many ready2use comps, not like Delphi with it’s TButtonEdit, TLinkLabel and others things, which should be presented 10 years ago. And VS 3rd-party market is huge.
Though it’s a pity that TurboPower is not here today…
But it’s other things why them gone - Delphi sucks for many years.
Will it rise again? Wee’ll see…
July 25th, 2008 at 2:44 amI disagree with Manolis. I like the MS products because they include all neccessary tools whithin the package. See SQL Server, VS. Why I need to spend extra money to by a lot of third party components to achieve just a modern look. I like to get all in the box. It is not about extra features that could be done by third parties. But the basic thinks like modern look and feel must be supplied by CodeGear. And it is very good that CodeGear updates VCL, first time for the years. What I personally wish, it is to update docking. Existing applications using built-in docking mechanism looks ugly on XP with themes enabled and nearly unusable on Vista. Why not to publish docking panels used by IDE?
July 25th, 2008 at 3:09 amI don’t care what kind of beta state it’s in… just send me a copy.
July 25th, 2008 at 3:59 amGood to see the "Exit" icon is still old skool
July 25th, 2008 at 4:58 amIn order Codegear to be able to attract new customers it must have allies.
July 25th, 2008 at 4:59 amIt must also provide some innovation something new in technology areas in order
to persuade third party companies to invest in these technologies.
In my opinion Codegear doesnot create allies.
I’m a VCL subscriber in DevExpress for many years and I’m watching the distance separating net
and Vcl tools to become bigger and bigger in favor of Microsoft Tools.
Can anyone really compare the quality and the support of DevExpress tools with anything?
They support previous versions products and give you patches and corrections for them nearly any month. These are really professionals. Visit their site and see the dozen of videos they create promoting Microsoft Tools. Any video for VCL? Not a chance..
I also see Microsoft’s third party parteners to produce their own technologies supporting net platforms. DevExpress for example introduces XPO and XAF, Remobjects has Oxygene and telerik creates its own WPF technology for Winforms ..
I also think that with the buyout from Embarcadero Codegear will also compete and shrink RemObjects DA.
Therefore in my opinion with these moves the VCL third party market will continue to shrink
Maybe some of you may think that it won’t affect Codegear, but I would have to disagree.
Liking the new components a lot and looking forward to unicode as we use a lot of mathematical (greek) symbols.
Hope you guys are currently debugging your little asses off!
July 25th, 2008 at 5:16 amI suggest this icon to replace the helmet: http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/images/jaws.jpg
July 25th, 2008 at 6:05 amZenon,
It’s not a medieval knight’s helmet. It’s a Greco-Roman era helmet. Seeing that Delphi was the ancient Greek location of an oracle, the icon makes sense. Still I would like to see a new icon this round. At one time, I had both D2006 and D2007 in my Quickstart bar. I had to hover just to find out which of the quick start was which. I eventually changed the icon of D2006 in the menu, but there needs to be a new icon for the new studio.
July 25th, 2008 at 7:25 amNick, you posted on the NNTP newsgroup borland.public.delphi.non-technical that there will not be a CodeGear RAD Studio product in the Tiburon timeframe. Is this screenshot correct, then? The IDE title says CodeGear RAD Studio, which could reasonably lead previous RAD Studio Software Assurance holders to expect a .NET personality.
-Brion
July 25th, 2008 at 7:34 amRoland –
What message bug in the build tab?
Nick
July 25th, 2008 at 8:05 amZenon –
The helmet icon is based on a very real Trojan Helmet found, if I am not mistaken, in the Hellenic National Museum in Greece.
Nick
July 25th, 2008 at 8:39 amOttar –
Yes, you can skin it. I believe that we are shipping with three different skins.
Nick
July 25th, 2008 at 8:40 amBTW –
The reason that the ListView isn’t themed is because I screwed up — I’m going to redo the screenshot.
Nick
July 25th, 2008 at 8:42 amBrion, is that you?!
From the old "Kylix-Borland Chat" times?
I’m Jonnes, remember me?
If you do so, send me a mail on joaolevada at gmail dot com
July 25th, 2008 at 9:48 amHi Nick,
Nice to see it.
1. In MSWord/Excel 2007 by double-clicking on a tab (eg. ‘Home’) the ribbon collapses (it enters, in fact, in auto-hide mode). After this, by (single) clicking on a tab it shows the corresponding page and after choosing a button/action the ribbon auto-hides itself again. By double-clicking again on a tab one can restore the ribbon’s initial state. Do you provide such a mode and/or corresponding events to achieve it?
2. About ’skining’: One can skin _only_ the ribbon or the entire form?
3. Do you provide an UI for end user customisation?
4. If the response for 3. is ‘yes’, it supports also shortcut keys customisation? (for ex. a THotKey component to assign certain key combination to the current action or something similar)
TIA,
m. Th.
July 25th, 2008 at 10:12 amJonnes/Joao! Yes, I’m still around. Not quite sure why sometimes, but just can’t seem to let myself go!
July 25th, 2008 at 1:43 pmNick,
Does the Ribbon support BidiMore = RightToLeft?
July 26th, 2008 at 6:56 amAnd what about Turbo Explorer 2009?
And without "One personality limitation" and "no 3rd party components".
Microsoft’s VS Express has much more possibilities and no limitations for developers in functionality!
Reports can be used free:
http://www.gotreportviewer.com/
For 75% single developers VSE is enough. They can free use 3rd party libraries:
1) Creating reports (MS Reporting Services + http://www.fyireporting.com/products.html)
July 26th, 2008 at 7:28 am2) Creating OpenXML files (Open XML Format SDK)
3) Working with OpenOffice with Intellisense.
4) Creating charts:
http://zedgraph.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
it wil be great adition if it suport righttoleft mode
August 10th, 2008 at 11:43 pm