Comments on: The Tool Palette: New vs. Old http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985 The Blog of the Delphi Product Manager Tue, 02 Dec 2008 13:18:53 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: James H http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-18755 James H Fri, 04 Jan 2008 01:41:21 +0000 http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-18755 "Now, I get that for some reason some of you still like the old one, but frankly, I think it is because you are either completely resistant to change :-) or because you don’t know the features and advantages of the new tool palette." Gee, I'm so glad you're willing to talk down to me. Makes me feel like a valued customer. I can't stand the new tool palette. I'm much slower with it, I could create a new form with many controls very rapidly in D7 and it simply takes me longer now. Don't tell me about keyboard this or that, when I'm doing form design my hand is on the mouse and if it has to leave it slows me down. And the amount of screen space it takes up is terrible. Auto-hide is not a good option, that is a very inconvenient solution to the problem. Its a moot point though. Our entire development team has retired Delphi and moved to Visual Studio. Its sad, I'm no longer as productive as I once was and now I have to deal with MS junk. But, on the bright side, I don't have to fight IT departments about why we are using Borland products when Microsoft is the company standard. If I have to adjust to a new IDE and way of doing things, I might as well just move to Visual Studio. Its less hassle for me and it provides more employment opportunities. It seems many developers feel the same way. I'm afraid Borland / CodeGear seems destined to follow in the footsteps of Novell. A very sad former Delphi developer. "Now, I get that for some reason some of you still like the old one, but frankly, I think it is because you are either completely resistant to change :-) or because you don’t know the features and advantages of the new tool palette."

Gee, I’m so glad you’re willing to talk down to me. Makes me feel like a valued customer.

I can’t stand the new tool palette. I’m much slower with it, I could create a new form with many controls very rapidly in D7 and it simply takes me longer now. Don’t tell me about keyboard this or that, when I’m doing form design my hand is on the mouse and if it has to leave it slows me down. And the amount of screen space it takes up is terrible. Auto-hide is not a good option, that is a very inconvenient solution to the problem.

Its a moot point though. Our entire development team has retired Delphi and moved to Visual Studio. Its sad, I’m no longer as productive as I once was and now I have to deal with MS junk. But, on the bright side, I don’t have to fight IT departments about why we are using Borland products when Microsoft is the company standard. If I have to adjust to a new IDE and way of doing things, I might as well just move to Visual Studio. Its less hassle for me and it provides more employment opportunities. It seems many developers feel the same way.

I’m afraid Borland / CodeGear seems destined to follow in the footsteps of Novell.

A very sad former Delphi developer.

]]> By: Steve M http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-18181 Steve M Fri, 07 Dec 2007 10:01:14 +0000 http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-18181 Thanks for those tips, Vegar. It's true that the new tool palette can be made like the old one. The only thing I can't do now is get it into as small a space. I've put it across the bottom of the screen for now. All that's preventing it from being the same size as the old one now is two rows of more or less blank space at the top, one for the caption and one for two or three buttons (filter on/off etc.) It seems easier to arrange this way. I've just moved the things I need to the front of the list and got things more or less the way I like them. It does take up too much space this way, though, so I'm going to put it back to the new way. Let's see...Hmm, now that is much nicer. Now that I've got my things organised, and selected "Always show designer items" I think I'm happy now. Now for Project Manager (no Properties menu) and Object Inspector. Heh. Thanks for those tips, Vegar. It’s true that the new tool palette can be made like the old one. The only thing I can’t do now is get it into as small a space. I’ve put it across the bottom of the screen for now.

All that’s preventing it from being the same size as the old one now is two rows of more or less blank space at the top, one for the caption and one for two or three buttons (filter on/off etc.)

It seems easier to arrange this way. I’ve just moved the things I need to the front of the list and got things more or less the way I like them.

It does take up too much space this way, though, so I’m going to put it back to the new way. Let’s see…Hmm, now that is much nicer. Now that I’ve got my things organised, and selected "Always show designer items" I think I’m happy now.

Now for Project Manager (no Properties menu) and Object Inspector. Heh.

]]> By: Kryvich http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-18025 Kryvich Tue, 04 Dec 2007 08:31:01 +0000 http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-18025 +1 for new palette and IDE. But if somebody really need old style palette - try The TwoDesk Mini Palette. +1 for new palette and IDE.

But if somebody really need old style palette - try The TwoDesk Mini Palette.

]]> By: Marius http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-17669 Marius Sun, 02 Dec 2007 18:13:01 +0000 http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-17669 I have been using component filtering since delphi4 via a plugin so the disappeared palette is really not shocking news (in fact i have it always invisible and only turned it on to explore new added omponents). You only get lost in the pallette if you install jedi and some other components-packs. The new one in 2007 is ok, i do like the reordering and the favorites, i have used the 2007 palette for a week (before i bounced on large file problems and went back to delphi7 + Lazarus) and it was not a big change except for the shortcut! If you have many components its just easier and faster navigation & creation, they should have done this 5 years ago ;-) -Marius I have been using component filtering since delphi4 via a plugin so the disappeared palette is really not shocking news (in fact i have it always invisible and only turned it on to explore new added omponents). You only get lost in the pallette if you install jedi and some other components-packs.

The new one in 2007 is ok, i do like the reordering and the favorites, i have used the 2007 palette for a week (before i bounced on large file problems and went back to delphi7 + Lazarus) and it was not a big change except for the shortcut! If you have many components its just easier and faster navigation & creation, they should have done this 5 years ago ;-)

-Marius

]]> By: Vegar http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-16912 Vegar Fri, 30 Nov 2007 19:58:50 +0000 http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-16912 Fred Weller: Left click, choose properties. Put a checkmark on 'Allways Show Designer Items' and all the components will stay in the palette as long as a project is loaded. I cant see how I should be able to select something with the mouse faster than I type. Maby I just suck at 'point and click'... But again - you can make the new palette tool look very much like the old one. You can make it buttons only and horizontal. And you can use your mouse to choose category like you choosed tabs, and you can choose component with the mouse like you did before. The typing-filtering-thing is an option. -Vegar Fred Weller: Left click, choose properties. Put a checkmark on ‘Allways Show Designer Items’ and all the components will stay in the palette as long as a project is loaded.

I cant see how I should be able to select something with the mouse faster than I type. Maby I just suck at ‘point and click’…

But again - you can make the new palette tool look very much like the old one. You can make it buttons only and horizontal. And you can use your mouse to choose category like you choosed tabs, and you can choose component with the mouse like you did before. The typing-filtering-thing is an option.

-Vegar

]]> By: Steve M http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-16824 Steve M Fri, 30 Nov 2007 15:34:18 +0000 http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-16824 I can't read all of the replies, there are too many. I've read a few and what I don't get is why people keep proclaiming (and it's not only on this topic) something like "I don't understand why people keep complaining about..." Ok, you don't understand: that's a bad thing - you should understand. Like, it's not a _virtue_ not to understand something you know. Another thing that bugs me is the properties in the Object inspector, they're ten times worse than the D7 format. Just so hard to find anything. And I'm never going to find things by starting to type their name - I'm not going back to text based work. Like somebody said above, I don't know the flippin' name, duh! Keep things solid and in one place. Ok, I take the point that the old toolbar did reduce subject to context, but it's just so hard to find anything in the new one: there's so much stuff, unwanted stuff, and it's always in the way. While I'm having a moan. The Project Manage: same problem. I always have to keep collapsing the view of projects in my project group before I can find the one I'm working on. I wish it would remember the way it was when I left it. It takes me about ten keystrokes or more and miles of mouse movement (battling all the while with the popping in and out of the whole thing from the side) to get it the way I want it before I can do anything. I just want everything exactly the way I put it, and for it to stay that way. Don't start me on the help. I can’t read all of the replies, there are too many. I’ve read a few and what I don’t get is why people keep proclaiming (and it’s not only on this topic) something like "I don’t understand why people keep complaining about…" Ok, you don’t understand: that’s a bad thing - you should understand. Like, it’s not a _virtue_ not to understand something you know.

Another thing that bugs me is the properties in the Object inspector, they’re ten times worse than the D7 format. Just so hard to find anything. And I’m never going to find things by starting to type their name - I’m not going back to text based work. Like somebody said above, I don’t know the flippin’ name, duh!

Keep things solid and in one place. Ok, I take the point that the old toolbar did reduce subject to context, but it’s just so hard to find anything in the new one: there’s so much stuff, unwanted stuff, and it’s always in the way.

While I’m having a moan. The Project Manage: same problem. I always have to keep collapsing the view of projects in my project group before I can find the one I’m working on. I wish it would remember the way it was when I left it. It takes me about ten keystrokes or more and miles of mouse movement (battling all the while with the popping in and out of the whole thing from the side) to get it the way I want it before I can do anything.

I just want everything exactly the way I put it, and for it to stay that way.

Don’t start me on the help.

]]> By: Joel http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-16820 Joel Fri, 30 Nov 2007 15:26:30 +0000 http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-16820 Hi Nick, I think the issue here is not with the new palette and all its great new features, which by the way I really love. However, the issue is with the vertical layout of the new palette vs not even having the choice to use a horizontal style layout that we were happy with for several years. Horizontal layout of the palette is easier and faster for our eyes to scan through. It’s the natural reading flow sequence of our eyes so it comes easy. Giving us a choice to have the same horizontal layout at the top of our screen along with the toolbar, and all the new powerful features of the new vertical palette would have been perfect. A choice between a vertical or horizontal toolbar will make everybody happy. By the way, I think that GExperts component palette configuration options in Delphi 7 and earlier gave us the best most efficient and effective palette layouts. We can learn from them. Hi Nick,

I think the issue here is not with the new palette and all its great new features, which by the way I really love. However, the issue is with the vertical layout of the new palette vs not even having the choice to use a horizontal style layout that we were happy with for several years. Horizontal layout of the palette is easier and faster for our eyes to scan through. It’s the natural reading flow sequence of our eyes so it comes easy. Giving us a choice to have the same horizontal layout at the top of our screen along with the toolbar, and all the new powerful features of the new vertical palette would have been perfect. A choice between a vertical or horizontal toolbar will make everybody happy. By the way, I think that GExperts component palette configuration options in Delphi 7 and earlier gave us the best most efficient and effective palette layouts. We can learn from them.

]]> By: Giel http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-16711 Giel Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:36:48 +0000 http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-16711 Michael Fritz, this is an improvement in Delphi 2007. Delphi 2006 and the turbo version only find items that match that search string right from the beginning. Michael Fritz, this is an improvement in Delphi 2007. Delphi 2006 and the turbo version only find items that match that search string right from the beginning.

]]> By: Michael Fritz http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-16689 Michael Fritz Fri, 30 Nov 2007 08:52:14 +0000 http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-16689 Looking at the video I noticed that when typing in filtered mode the tool palette finds any component where the search string is at *any* position in the caption. When typing e.h. 'edit' it finds TEdit, TDBEdit etc. Doing this in Turbo Delphi Pro it will just find TEdit. Is there a switch where I could force the palette in Turbo to search not only from the beginning of a component caption? Michael Looking at the video I noticed that when typing in filtered mode the tool palette finds any component where the search string is at *any* position in the caption.

When typing e.h. ‘edit’ it finds TEdit, TDBEdit etc. Doing this in Turbo Delphi Pro it will just find TEdit. Is there a switch where I could force the palette in Turbo to search not only from the beginning of a component caption?

Michael

]]> By: Roddy http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-16453 Roddy Thu, 29 Nov 2007 19:36:46 +0000 http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-16453 All this talk about the tool palette and "Favourites" made me realise that what I *really* wanted to do was drag (for example) a TButton on a form, change some properties, and then drag the 'modified' component back as a "favourite". I was about to submit a QC request for this, when I discovered that you cal /already/ effectively do this - using "component templates". And, that it's been around since D5. And it's much more powerful than that. Whoops... http://delphi.about.com/cs/howto/ht/htcomptempl.htm All this talk about the tool palette and "Favourites" made me realise that what I *really* wanted to do was drag (for example) a TButton on a form, change some properties, and then drag the ‘modified’ component back as a "favourite".

I was about to submit a QC request for this, when I discovered that you cal /already/ effectively do this - using "component templates". And, that it’s been around since D5. And it’s much more powerful than that. Whoops…

http://delphi.about.com/cs/howto/ht/htcomptempl.htm

]]> By: Fred Weller http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-16448 Fred Weller Thu, 29 Nov 2007 19:01:43 +0000 http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-16448 Short and sweet: space and relative intelligence. The new palette simply takes up too much space. It isn't there when I want it to be and if I leave it undocked it takes up too much space (I'm one of those folks still living in a single monitor world because VMWare doesn't support multi-monitor the way I want it to and because my employer is too cheap to give the developers (this is a software company no less) two monitors). I have one 17". The other is that the new palette tries to keep me from making mistakes by not allowing me to see things that won't go on the currently focused page. As in if I'm on a unit page I can't see ANYTHING component related! If I'm in the middle of a thought and want to check the help for a property usage, before I can get to it I have to go to a screen that allows that component and then select it...sucks, especially when I used to be able to select the component and punch F1! If there is a way that I can have all the components show all the time that would help. I don't mind IDE's that try to help but don't try to make it "safe" for me - I can think on my own just fine thank you. And what's this with trying to do a better Visual Studio than M$? DUMB IDEA - I LIKE the Delphi interface and here you've given me a bastardized version of VS with all of its worst characteristics. Floating design screens are MUCH better that that silly design palette for forms. Yecch! Yes, I realize that one can change back but the focus keeps changing unlike D7 - something you DIDN'T fix when you brought back the "old way". Now, I'll grant you - for component selection I am hooked on Ray's Palette tool - it is very much faster for me to pick a category, select it, then select the component on the toolbar when it shows up. If it's in the cards, I would very much vote for a return of the old palette as an option. I would add Rays' palette tool as a feature and I think you will have a good thing going. New palette for those that think that way, old palette for those of us that, after 10 years, have developed habits we don't want to change. Like, God Help Me if you ever drop the "Classic" keyboard mapping - I've been using that since Turbo Pascal 3.02a way to long now to ever change (I am thankful for DPack's Delphi mappings for VS - it's the only way I can function in VS-land). I hear you when you speak of those that are resistant to change but the whole point of an IDE is to *assist* engineers in their work. Forcing new paradigms on experienced engineers does NOT promote productivity - it actually slows things down as we are required to change the habits and finger intelligence (my fingers know much more than I do about the IDE than I do, if I actually have to think about what I want to do I usually screw it up) that have taken decades to develop and hone to a fine art. It's a standing given in software-land - incremental changes are best and I should like to see a few increments included in the next release (an SP would be better but...). Short and sweet: space and relative intelligence. The new palette simply takes up too much space. It isn’t there when I want it to be and if I leave it undocked it takes up too much space (I’m one of those folks still living in a single monitor world because VMWare doesn’t support multi-monitor the way I want it to and because my employer is too cheap to give the developers (this is a software company no less) two monitors). I have one 17".
The other is that the new palette tries to keep me from making mistakes by not allowing me to see things that won’t go on the currently focused page. As in if I’m on a unit page I can’t see ANYTHING component related! If I’m in the middle of a thought and want to check the help for a property usage, before I can get to it I have to go to a screen that allows that component and then select it…sucks, especially when I used to be able to select the component and punch F1! If there is a way that I can have all the components show all the time that would help. I don’t mind IDE’s that try to help but don’t try to make it "safe" for me - I can think on my own just fine thank you. And what’s this with trying to do a better Visual Studio than M$? DUMB IDEA - I LIKE the Delphi interface and here you’ve given me a bastardized version of VS with all of its worst characteristics. Floating design screens are MUCH better that that silly design palette for forms. Yecch! Yes, I realize that one can change back but the focus keeps changing unlike D7 - something you DIDN’T fix when you brought back the "old way".
Now, I’ll grant you - for component selection I am hooked on Ray’s Palette tool - it is very much faster for me to pick a category, select it, then select the component on the toolbar when it shows up.
If it’s in the cards, I would very much vote for a return of the old palette as an option. I would add Rays’ palette tool as a feature and I think you will have a good thing going. New palette for those that think that way, old palette for those of us that, after 10 years, have developed habits we don’t want to change. Like, God Help Me if you ever drop the "Classic" keyboard mapping - I’ve been using that since Turbo Pascal 3.02a way to long now to ever change (I am thankful for DPack’s Delphi mappings for VS - it’s the only way I can function in VS-land). I hear you when you speak of those that are resistant to change but the whole point of an IDE is to *assist* engineers in their work. Forcing new paradigms on experienced engineers does NOT promote productivity - it actually slows things down as we are required to change the habits and finger intelligence (my fingers know much more than I do about the IDE than I do, if I actually have to think about what I want to do I usually screw it up) that have taken decades to develop and hone to a fine art. It’s a standing given in software-land - incremental changes are best and I should like to see a few increments included in the next release (an SP would be better but…).

]]> By: Fernando Madruga http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-16410 Fernando Madruga Thu, 29 Nov 2007 17:23:45 +0000 http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-16410 I must confess I didn't read ALL previous comments. Still, here's my personal view of it. I like the new pallete, don't LOVE it, just like it. Working on a laptop with a wide screen and 1680x1050 does help because I don't feel that it wastes that much space as I can still easily fit in everything I need without feeling "cramped". HOWEVER... There's one thing I don't like (haven't tested in SP3 as I just finished installing it), and that's when the quick find option gets me typing in the property inspector instead of the proper place and I overwrite some property by accident. That's a bug that was present as of at least SP1 and I haven't tested on SP3 but is very annoying... Otherwise, finding the right component is much easier/faster now, especially if you install a few component sets. You don't NEED to know the name, but if you do, it's very quick to put the compoenent in the form... However, I can see that, in tighter screens, it can be a huge waste of space... I must confess I didn’t read ALL previous comments.

Still, here’s my personal view of it.

I like the new pallete, don’t LOVE it, just like it. Working on a laptop with a wide screen and 1680×1050 does help because I don’t feel that it wastes that much space as I can still easily fit in everything I need without feeling "cramped".

HOWEVER…

There’s one thing I don’t like (haven’t tested in SP3 as I just finished installing it), and that’s when the quick find option gets me typing in the property inspector instead of the proper place and I overwrite some property by accident. That’s a bug that was present as of at least SP1 and I haven’t tested on SP3 but is very annoying…

Otherwise, finding the right component is much easier/faster now, especially if you install a few component sets. You don’t NEED to know the name, but if you do, it’s very quick to put the compoenent in the form…

However, I can see that, in tighter screens, it can be a huge waste of space…

]]> By: Chris http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-16390 Chris Thu, 29 Nov 2007 16:24:10 +0000 http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-16390 Nick, First - I completely agree that the new palette is more functional than the one I used in Delphi 7. Two suggestions for improving it further: (1) Have the Favourites category managed dynamically. Itit keep the last 10 most used components sorted by most used to least used (the 10 should be configurable). (2) The veritcal category label is good but for categories with many items it's really no more visible than the horizontal form because it is rendered in the middle of the entire vertical range. I suggest that you repeat the title over and over vertically to completely fill the range. Nick,

First - I completely agree that the new palette is more functional than the one I used in Delphi 7. Two suggestions for improving it further:

(1) Have the Favourites category managed dynamically. Itit keep the last 10 most used components sorted by most used to least used (the 10 should be configurable).

(2) The veritcal category label is good but for categories with many items it’s really no more visible than the horizontal form because it is rendered in the middle of the entire vertical range. I suggest that you repeat the title over and over vertically to completely fill the range.

]]> By: Douglas Helm http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-16388 Douglas Helm Thu, 29 Nov 2007 16:22:38 +0000 http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-16388 I love the new tool palette, especially the filtering. My only quibble is that Filtering sometimes doesn't kick in so instead of searching for the VCL I wind up renaming the control I was currently working with. I love the new tool palette, especially the filtering. My only quibble is that Filtering sometimes doesn’t kick in so instead of searching for the VCL I wind up renaming the control I was currently working with.

]]> By: Giel http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-16345 Giel Thu, 29 Nov 2007 14:10:09 +0000 http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-16345 David Howes, I think you're missing something indeed ;-) The letters appear at the top of the tool palett (where it says 'tool palette'). David Howes, I think you’re missing something indeed ;-)

The letters appear at the top of the tool palett (where it says ‘tool palette’).

]]> By: Malcolm Cheyne http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-16303 Malcolm Cheyne Thu, 29 Nov 2007 11:45:39 +0000 http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-16303 Nick I love watching your little tutorials. Please bring them back. I learned so much watching that Tool Palette video. (and I'm really enjoying CodeRage II even though sessions start at 1.00 a.m. the next day downunder. :-) ) Nick I love watching your little tutorials. Please bring them back. I learned so much watching that Tool Palette video. (and I’m really enjoying CodeRage II even though sessions start at 1.00 a.m. the next day downunder. :-) )

]]> By: Malcolm Cheyne http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-16296 Malcolm Cheyne Thu, 29 Nov 2007 11:32:16 +0000 http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-16296 I deliberately have not watched the video (yet) because I wanted to see what all the problem is about. Having done that, all I can say is I've had to learn the pallette by trial and error. e.g. last week I was installing a component and after searching in the palette (and not finding it) I removed and re-installed a couple more times before I found the Hide/UnHide feature. I really like the the new pallette set up on dual monitors with a FULL editing screen on the left and OI,TP, Struc, and PM on the right monitor. I've saved off to a "Dual 1024 x 768 Screen" setting. When I need to also do work on the second monitor I switch D2007 back to "Default". Watching Marco's demos had me wondering how on earth he got suuch a large font in the IDE. After a little searching in Tools | Editor Options | Display I changed my Font size to 13. I'm no longer straining to read the IDE. Which brings me back to one point that I would like to make .... The last bit of DECENT written documenation came out with D7. It took me a long time (Trying) to come to grips with this new help system, but I still want to rely on a BOOK, even if I have to BUY IT AT LULU !! How about it Nick ? In summary, I love D2007 and the new palette. Keep up the good work. I deliberately have not watched the video (yet) because I wanted to see what all the problem is about. Having done that, all I can say is I’ve had to learn the pallette by trial and error. e.g. last week I was installing a component and after searching in the palette (and not finding it) I removed and re-installed a couple more times before I found the Hide/UnHide feature. I really like the the new pallette set up on dual monitors with a FULL editing screen on the left and OI,TP, Struc, and PM on the right monitor. I’ve saved off to a "Dual 1024 x 768 Screen" setting. When I need to also do work on the second monitor I switch D2007 back to "Default". Watching Marco’s demos had me wondering how on earth he got suuch a large font in the IDE. After a little searching in Tools | Editor Options | Display I changed my Font size to 13. I’m no longer straining to read the IDE. Which brings me back to one point that I would like to make …. The last bit of DECENT written documenation came out with D7. It took me a long time (Trying) to come to grips with this new help system, but I still want to rely on a BOOK, even if I have to BUY IT AT LULU !! How about it Nick ? In summary, I love D2007 and the new palette. Keep up the good work.

]]> By: m. Th. http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-16258 m. Th. Thu, 29 Nov 2007 10:09:32 +0000 http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-16258 I do like the new palette over the old one mainly because the new one has filtering and all the tabs quickly visible in a menu. Yes, it takes more space but since I have a dual head VGA this isn't a problem for me. Perhaps auto-hiding the palette mitigates this but I cannot say, I don't have personal experience with this. (I have the OI in auto-hide mode and I'm satisfied, though). But the problems with the new palette are, imho: 1. QC #55403 - If you want to copy a component to the 'Favorites' category then you have to drag, draag, draaaaag, draaaaaaag... Perhaps an option in the right-click menu with 'Copy/Move to... ' would be very nice. 2. QC #49791 - The most used component list (more details in the QC report) 4. QC #55404 - (a variant of the above) - The last used component list - as a menu perhaps Just an aside, if you can *easily* (ie. design, coding, maintenance) provide _as_an_option_ the old style palette, then perhaps you should do it. I do like the new palette over the old one mainly because the new one has filtering and all the tabs quickly visible in a menu. Yes, it takes more space but since I have a dual head VGA this isn’t a problem for me. Perhaps auto-hiding the palette mitigates this but I cannot say, I don’t have personal experience with this. (I have the OI in auto-hide mode and I’m satisfied, though). But the problems with the new palette are, imho:

1. QC #55403 - If you want to copy a component to the ‘Favorites’ category then you have to drag, draag, draaaaag, draaaaaaag… Perhaps an option in the right-click menu with ‘Copy/Move to… ‘ would be very nice.

2. QC #49791 - The most used component list (more details in the QC report)

4. QC #55404 - (a variant of the above) - The last used component list - as a menu perhaps

Just an aside, if you can *easily* (ie. design, coding, maintenance) provide _as_an_option_ the old style palette, then perhaps you should do it.

]]> By: Directx http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-16256 Directx Thu, 29 Nov 2007 10:02:28 +0000 http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-16256 What really bothers me in the new IDE of Turbo C++ compared to C/C++ Builder 6 is the fact that the form-editor always display the form inside a white background window which in turn tires my eyes, I prefer the old-good Builder 6 approach were the Form lays as is on the screen! Now, about the panel, these days I had to switch back to C/C++ Builder 6 and it’s old tool-bar, well it’s not that bad, but definitely lacks the new tool-bar features.. BUT.. On the other hand, the icon-setup of C/C++ Builder 6 tool-bar seems more intuitive than the icon-setup of the new tool-bar in the Turbo C++ Express edition (for example) so I really do not need these new search features when working with Builder 6 (and do not ask me why!). Anyway, it’s a matter of taste :-D What really bothers me in the new IDE of Turbo C++ compared to C/C++ Builder 6 is the fact that the form-editor always display the form inside a white background window which in turn tires my eyes, I prefer the old-good Builder 6 approach were the Form lays as is on the screen!

Now, about the panel, these days I had to switch back to C/C++ Builder 6 and it’s old tool-bar, well it’s not that bad, but definitely lacks the new tool-bar features.. BUT..

On the other hand, the icon-setup of C/C++ Builder 6 tool-bar seems more intuitive than the icon-setup of the new tool-bar in the Turbo C++ Express edition (for example) so I really do not need these new search features when working with Builder 6 (and do not ask me why!).

Anyway, it’s a matter of taste :-D

]]> By: Luigi D. Sandon http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-16243 Luigi D. Sandon Thu, 29 Nov 2007 09:24:40 +0000 http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-16243 The very fact that after five years since D7 we are still here debating about the palette tells that something went wrong with the last one. Overall, it's not such an improvement. A lot depends on how people use it, how many components they install, how complex are their forms, and how they build them visually, how their IDE is organized, if they can remember each component name or are faster looking at icons, and so on. Some people find the new palette better, others don't, and from their point of view probably both parties are right. I have only to say that instead of a VS imitation, Borland/CodeGear could have retougth the palette in far better ways *for Delphi users*, not VS ones. The very fact that after five years since D7 we are still here debating about the palette tells that something went wrong with the last one.
Overall, it’s not such an improvement. A lot depends on how people use it, how many components they install, how complex are their forms, and how they build them visually, how their IDE is organized, if they can remember each component name or are faster looking at icons, and so on. Some people find the new palette better, others don’t, and from their point of view probably both parties are right.
I have only to say that instead of a VS imitation, Borland/CodeGear could have retougth the palette in far better ways *for Delphi users*, not VS ones.

]]> By: Manolis Perrakis http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-16205 Manolis Perrakis Thu, 29 Nov 2007 08:25:36 +0000 http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-16205 Regarding this very complex issue I think the following must be taken into account: 1. In order to check the efficiency of each toolbar you must have a lot of components installed in your computer. In my case I have more than 100 tabs which means more than 100 rows or shrinked row categories in the new system. 2. I think it is obvious that the best way is to find and choose the component you want by clicking and by scrolling. Typing the component name is slow. 3. When you want to put a component on a form you have decided before its origin. For example when you want to put a grid or a panel you already know if this must be a Delphi, or a DevExpress or a TMS etch. 4. Most of the times you want to select a set of controls: e.g. a client dataset, a datasource, a dataset provider or a textedit, a check box, a lookupcombobox etc. Therefore you cannot type all the time the component name. 5. The components must be categorized in a way that you can easily spot the group you want. Therefore if you have 100 row categories like in my case in order to find a specific category I must scroll each time 100 different tabs. Therefore if I want to put in a form for example a devexpress grid, a devexpress grid repository and a cxgridpopupmenu, some TMS contols, then some devexpress editors, then some data components then some remobjects components and then some reportbuilder components I must scroll this 100 row category list many times. Now if you have some components categories (let say 6-10 at most) and some subcategories which contain all the relevant tabs inside things would be great. From a ten items list select devexpress and devexpress subcategory and select the items you want. Shrink the toolbar items. Category TMS, subcategory TMS select some controls. Shrink. DevExpress , DevExpress editors choose controls and shink. Delphi, Datacontrols and choose some datacontrols and shrink. Remote Data, RemObjects choose and shrink. Final, Reports, Report Builder, choose and shrink. All these without typing anything, and without having to scroll many unused row categories. Best Regards, Manolis Perrakis Regarding this very complex issue I think the following must be taken into account:
1. In order to check the efficiency of each toolbar you must have a lot of components installed in your computer. In my case I have more than 100 tabs which means more than 100 rows or shrinked row categories in the new system.
2. I think it is obvious that the best way is to find and choose the component you want by clicking and by scrolling. Typing the component name is slow.
3. When you want to put a component on a form you have decided before its origin. For example when you want to put a grid or a panel you already know if this must be a Delphi, or a DevExpress or a TMS etch.
4. Most of the times you want to select a set of controls: e.g.
a client dataset, a datasource, a dataset provider or
a textedit, a check box, a lookupcombobox etc. Therefore you cannot type all the time the component name.
5. The components must be categorized in a way that you can easily spot the group you want. Therefore if you have 100 row categories like in my case in order to find a specific category I must scroll each time 100 different tabs. Therefore if I want to put in a form for example a devexpress grid, a devexpress grid repository and a cxgridpopupmenu, some TMS contols, then some devexpress editors, then some data components then some remobjects components and then some reportbuilder components I must scroll this 100 row category list many times.

Now if you have some components categories (let say 6-10 at most) and some subcategories which contain all the relevant tabs inside things would be great.
From a ten items list select devexpress and devexpress subcategory and select the items you want. Shrink the toolbar items. Category TMS, subcategory TMS select some controls. Shrink. DevExpress , DevExpress editors choose controls and shink. Delphi, Datacontrols and choose some datacontrols and shrink. Remote Data, RemObjects choose and shrink. Final, Reports, Report Builder, choose and shrink.
All these without typing anything, and without having to scroll many unused row categories.

Best Regards,
Manolis Perrakis

]]> By: David Howes http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-16207 David Howes Thu, 29 Nov 2007 08:19:12 +0000 http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-16207 I wish the letters I typed would appear somewhere. That way I figure out I'd made a typo at the beginning of the component name before I'd typed out the entire name. Or I am missing something? I wish the letters I typed would appear somewhere. That way I figure out I’d made a typo at the beginning of the component name before I’d typed out the entire name. Or I am missing something?

]]> By: Joeri Sebrechts http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-16194 Joeri Sebrechts Thu, 29 Nov 2007 07:49:51 +0000 http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-16194 I've been using Delphi since 1.0, and I must say that I also thought the new palette was a huge step up in the usability department. The old toolbar was so difficult to navigate that I often had to use the component list. I think most of the arguments in favor of the old palette make zero sense. The argument about wasted screen real estate for example is impossible to understand since you can set the new palette to auto-hide so it takes up almost no screen real estate, whereas you always had to have the old toolbar on the screen wasting a ton of space. I’ve been using Delphi since 1.0, and I must say that I also thought the new palette was a huge step up in the usability department. The old toolbar was so difficult to navigate that I often had to use the component list. I think most of the arguments in favor of the old palette make zero sense. The argument about wasted screen real estate for example is impossible to understand since you can set the new palette to auto-hide so it takes up almost no screen real estate, whereas you always had to have the old toolbar on the screen wasting a ton of space.

]]> By: Bob S http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-16043 Bob S Thu, 29 Nov 2007 00:36:28 +0000 http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-16043 @ C Johnson #15 post - "Frankly, with the D7 style palette and GExpert’s drop down menu for catagories, I could get anywhere I wanted FASTER than I could type a name usually." #57 post - "My point is that it would take a very minimal effort for CodeGear to provide it both ways." I do agree 100% with both of those statements... wishlist? I miss that simple button/select-what-you-want from the drop down panel and go. @ C Johnson
#15 post - "Frankly, with the D7 style palette and GExpert’s drop down menu for catagories, I could get anywhere I wanted FASTER than I could type a name usually."

#57 post - "My point is that it would take a very minimal effort for CodeGear to provide it both ways."

I do agree 100% with both of those statements… wishlist? I miss that simple button/select-what-you-want from the drop down panel and go.

]]> By: Bob S http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-16030 Bob S Thu, 29 Nov 2007 00:14:54 +0000 http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-16030 @ SteveG and Maarten - Re: "Then, you get the flakey Object Inspector to view the control’s properties - it is not very stable. By the way, what is the short-cut key to get the control’s Name in Object Inspector? Never can find it since it is not bolded." Forget the name getting bolded... how about getting the entire "Name" or "Value" highlighted (even easier to find)? 1) Press F11 till the Object Inspector has focus. 2) Use Tab to select Name column. 3) Begin typing the name of the property... 4) Tab again to enter the Value column. Huge thanks to Malcolm Groves, where I saw this: Incremental Searching in the Delphi Object Inspector http://www.malcolmgroves.com/ecoweb/articleview.aspx?ItemID=c0af98e4c72942cfa8018812bdec35dd @ SteveG and Maarten - Re: "Then, you get the flakey Object Inspector to view the control’s properties - it is not very stable. By the way, what is the short-cut key to get the control’s Name in Object Inspector? Never can find it since it is not bolded."

Forget the name getting bolded… how about getting the entire "Name" or "Value" highlighted (even easier to find)?

1) Press F11 till the Object Inspector has focus.
2) Use Tab to select Name column.
3) Begin typing the name of the property…
4) Tab again to enter the Value column.

Huge thanks to Malcolm Groves, where I saw this:

Incremental Searching in the Delphi Object Inspector
http://www.malcolmgroves.com/ecoweb/articleview.aspx?ItemID=c0af98e4c72942cfa8018812bdec35dd

]]> By: C Johnson http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-16005 C Johnson Wed, 28 Nov 2007 23:17:14 +0000 http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-16005 Maarten -> Yes, it's true that the discontent does not represent everyone. That said, very few feature changes make as many people as unhappy for as long as the component palette has. My point is that it would take a very minimal effort for CodeGear to provide it both ways. I have worked with the new component palette extensively, and frankly, I just do not find it to work as efficently as the old palette does, regardless of how it is arranged due to to its mix of vertical and horizontal layout. It is a poor design that is ameliorated with filtering. I have learned to live with the new style of the palette, but frankly I still hate it just as much today as I did the first time I saw it. If I could choose between the 2 tool palette styles, both with filtering, I can not imagine a single instance where the new style would be preferable, where as I could at least save screen space for form design with the old style. Nick -> you do know you could browse and text search all the components in D7 too, right? Maarten -> Yes, it’s true that the discontent does not represent everyone. That said, very few feature changes make as many people as unhappy for as long as the component palette has.

My point is that it would take a very minimal effort for CodeGear to provide it both ways.

I have worked with the new component palette extensively, and frankly, I just do not find it to work as efficently as the old palette does, regardless of how it is arranged due to to its mix of vertical and horizontal layout. It is a poor design that is ameliorated with filtering.

I have learned to live with the new style of the palette, but frankly I still hate it just as much today as I did the first time I saw it. If I could choose between the 2 tool palette styles, both with filtering, I can not imagine a single instance where the new style would be preferable, where as I could at least save screen space for form design with the old style.

Nick -> you do know you could browse and text search all the components in D7 too, right?

]]> By: Nick Hodges http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-15983 Nick Hodges Wed, 28 Nov 2007 22:08:00 +0000 http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-15983 Stefan -- I find it easier for browsing. Simply select Expand All, and now you can browse all the components without having to switch or click any tabs. You just scroll. And you can use the wheel to scroll. Seems easier to me. Nick Stefan –

I find it easier for browsing. Simply select Expand All, and now you can browse all the components without having to switch or click any tabs. You just scroll. And you can use the wheel to scroll.

Seems easier to me.

Nick

]]> By: Stefan http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-15973 Stefan Wed, 28 Nov 2007 21:41:31 +0000 http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-15973 If you know what you're looking for, then yes, the new tool palette is better. however, if you like to browse and see what components are in there (or find a component you do not know the name of), it's not really that friendly. Personally, I have installed Ray's IDE palette menu (http://www.raize.com/DevTools/Tools/PaletteMenu.asp) which is really great - for me, it sure is faster than Ctrl+Alt+P and then typing a name... If you know what you’re looking for, then yes, the new tool palette is better. however, if you like to browse and see what components are in there (or find a component you do not know the name of), it’s not really that friendly. Personally, I have installed Ray’s IDE palette menu (http://www.raize.com/DevTools/Tools/PaletteMenu.asp) which is really great - for me, it sure is faster than Ctrl+Alt+P and then typing a name…

]]> By: Mario http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-15952 Mario Wed, 28 Nov 2007 20:15:08 +0000 http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-15952 The new IDE and TP Rocks!. Yes, it changed (and some people don't like changes), but is better. keep up the good work (and the new pallete) The new IDE and TP Rocks!. Yes, it changed (and some people don’t like changes), but is better.

keep up the good work (and the new pallete)

]]> By: Roddy http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-15927 Roddy Wed, 28 Nov 2007 19:03:22 +0000 http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/2007/11/27/38985#comment-15927 @Peter B: Thanks - I missed that. When you hold the CTRL key down, the drag cursor reverts to a normal cursor, so I didn't spot it. - Roddy @Peter B: Thanks - I missed that. When you hold the CTRL key down, the drag cursor reverts to a normal cursor, so I didn’t spot it.

- Roddy

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