Question: how many layers is to many?
Well if you read my last post then you know that I already have some issues with the concept of size around applications, especially around web based applications using Web 2.0 / 3.0x technologies and techniques.
The web is looking for that elusive "rich" client access, the "thing" that makes the browser work like the old tried and true Windows application.
So now here we go again, with the runtimes… the new Adobe (AIR), Microsoft (Silverlight), and Mozilla (Prism software) they are all trying in some way to blend/blur the lines between desktop and browser. What is the difference between having to download .NET or Java compared to downloading these runtimes? The Adobe AIR product is around 11 - 15 megabytes depending on the platform, again what is the advantage?
It appears that all of these companies are trying to get rid of the browser, which is fine, or are the new runtimes the "new" browser? They highlight how applications created with "x" technology is able to run outside the browser as a stand-alone application.
Another question; do client side runtimes work? I don’t know of any besides Flash that has really worked as planned. But, IMO, the reason why Flash worked is because it was small and fast to load… these other runtimes will not be that way.
Again, I will ask the question… does a rich Delphi or C++Builder front end communicating to the middle-tier using web communication protocols fit the same bill without the overhead?
More to come…
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Posted by Michael Rozlog on February 1st, 2008 under Uncategorized |5 Responses to “Question: how many layers is to many?”
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February 1st, 2008 at 11:41 am
Prism isn’t a runtime, it’s just Firefox without the chrome. It turns out to be a nice way to host something like gmail so that it looks a little like a full screen desktop app.
AIR, Silverlight and Flash do all appear to be peas in a pod though, I’ll give you that.
Prism is totally different though.
February 1st, 2008 at 12:09 pm
While I will agree that Prism is slightly different, it still requires a 6.6 megabyte download to get rid of the browser interface. Again, I’m trying to point out that the current technology available today with Delphi can solve this exact issue, without the overhead associated with each of these types of solutions.
February 1st, 2008 at 12:54 pm
Flash grew up in the dialup dominated days. While it was smaller than Java or dotNet, it was also going over smaller pipes. The penetration of Broadband probably nullifies any issues with size, unless they are really REALLY big. (dotNet jumps to mind, but MS is trying to push that as an OS foundation piece, so eventually it will just be a part of windows for everyone, so even then, I doubt its a long term concern)
As far as bluring the lines go, most of them still need a browser, even if they hide the details.
February 1st, 2008 at 8:38 pm
As far as I know, there are three points :
1. IT bosses are now reluctant to allow installing and running normal exe’s on their machines because of security concerns,
2. Web apps should be multiplatform and run on any OS and on/with any browser,
3. Web apps should update themselves automatically.
If a runtime can effectively sandbox an application, i.e. limit its rights according to the enforced security policy AND can run anywhere AND auto-update both itself and its applications, it can be very successful.
I am now in process of porting experimentally one of my lesser applications (client part of a web service) to Adobe Flex/AIR just to verify whether it can be done and what problems may arise.
Although the ActionScript language seems to be powerful enough and the FlexBuilder is RAD enough (FlexBuilder can be best described as a "poor man’s Delphi"), I would be much more happy if I could do this work with Delphi - but Delphi makes applications which are Windows only, cannot be sandboxed nor auto-updated.
February 4th, 2008 at 6:50 am
I agree mostly with Pavel’s comments however think it relates more to perception and selective hype.
Delphi would do well to include a focused effort on a zero deployment web launched application platform that can be provisioned for Win32 and .NET. A bit of a CodeLight runtime ;-). There is surely some middle ground between a Java Web Start application and a fully embedded experience like Flash.